How Big A Ring? (+ Q&A from Wedding Date)
Hi, Joan,
Thank you for your response. It was a very stressful time for Darcy, one that frequently had her in tears. And I struggled with the same fears you expressed (and they were fears, not mere anxieties) when answering Darcy.
Fact is, having a baby and then hoping for a proposal is a situation rife with the potential for abandonment, abuse, being cheated on…all because the woman is no longer in the position of strength she holds during courtship. Large-scale studies have shown that women who have had children are less likely ever to receive a proposal, even from the baby’s own father. They’re more likely to experience the kinds of emotional and financial abandonment you listed, too. Becoming engaged during courtship—and without a pregnancy—is by far the safer option.
But it was too late for that for Darcy.
You’re right, too, that Darcy could have proposed and lost the guy, but I had two reasons for suggesting it anyway:
1. This man adored/adores her.
Darcy and I exchanged several letters. In each, it was clear from her descriptions of Alex’s behavior that Alex really loved her and their baby. Where men love, they invest. My intuition—and we’ve learned not to knock intuition at LoveScience!—told me that Alex would say yes. He had either lost a sense that marriage was urgent, or he was trying to make Darcy happy with a huge ring, or (and I suspect this was it) both. But ultimately, what Alex wanted was to make Darcy happy…I felt confident of that, and ran it by Darcy. She thought so, too, and was just confused as to why he wasn’t proposing.
2. Darcy needed clarity and closure.
Darcy was ready to hear the truth, even if the truth was No, he would never marry her. It would have been very hard to get a No to the proposal, but she was going to do it because her need to have an answer was stronger than her need to continue wondering, every *single* day, whether he really wanted to marry her. I doubt the relationship would have survived his No; data in the USA are clear that if the guy never wants to get married, the relationship wasn’t going to last anyway, though. She needed to know.
Ultimately, though, the best-case scenario is what really happened. I think I was never happier to have my advice go unused. Darcy was on the brink of following it when Alex proposed. I cried as I wrote the ending to this article and can only hope some of our Wise Readers joined me!
I agree with the advice given here. I think the idea of the perfect proposal is nice, but times have changed. Much in the same way that it used to be unheard of for a woman to even ask a man out on a date, nowadays marriage is something that either sex should be able to propose. Why not? Like Virginia Slim says, we’ve come a long way, baby. Perhaps some guys just need a little encouragement.
Duana’s response: Well…Not Really…
Donovan, thank you for writing in; it’s good to have another new voice. I think sometimes in this situation Darcy and her man were in, men need a bit of encouragement.
But in general, around the world men continue to propose, for good reason. Our society has evolved rapidly, but our psyches are still demonstrably 100,000 years or more old. While women typically ‘tend and befriend’, relating to each other in hierarchy, men live in a more status-centric mentality where you’re either one-up or one-down.
This competitive mindset is no surprise; after all, women have heavily selected for able providers since the human world began. But it means that a woman who courts a man is usually seen as low-status, one-down, and less desirable. A guy who won’t do the pursuing in courtship typically won’t help with the heavy lifting afterwards, either.
In their evolved-psychological Gut, women know this and will usually prefer waiting for years for a proposal over offering one up themselves. This was yet another reason I didn’t want to give Darcy the advice I did. And another reason why I was so happy she never needed to use it.
From Mocha’s Mom: Darn That Wedding Industry!
There is a multi-faceted industry working really hard to convince women that they need the “wedding of their dreams” and men that it is of the utmost importance to support that. The “two months’ salary” concept for buying diamond rings, for example, is one of the stupidest and most evil ad campaigns ever.
I could go on and on (and on) about the bridal industry, and how hard they work to make incredibly pointless stuff (commemorative matchbooks with the couple’s names and the date) seem not only reasonable, but required.
However, I am dying to hear Duana’s take on this sort of thing. Does the amount of money, time, and labor for a wedding that has been pretty well normalized affect how couples function? Does the whole thing intimidate men enough to mess up relationships with money worries? And why the heck do people accept very late Victorian customs as the norm? Inquiring minds want to know!
Hi, Mocha’s Mom, thanks for taking time to write in with a query that certainly resonates.
You’re correct, it was Queen Victoria who launched many of our continuing Western high-dollar wedding traditions. I can’t speak as to why these have persisted while others were ignored.
But I share your opinion of the Wedding Industry. From the research-backed standpoint of men’s, women’s and children’s well-being, the marriage is important; the wedding is not. Yet I’ve known many women who—even after a child is born—want the huge white wedding and will wait for commitment rather than delay their Disney Princess day. They’ve bought the implicit idea that a day is more important than a lifetime; or perhaps they never encountered valid information that showed, compellingly, that putting off marriage could be actively detrimental to the happiness and longevity of the union when it did take place.
I’ve read that poor people often put off weddings because they feel they cannot afford a service, and also that the middle-class, too, is delaying formalizing vows more during the recession. A recent Pew report shows that marriage rates are declining throughout the Western world. They don’t provide much analysis, but what I’ve read elsewhere, and the letters I’m getting on-site, indicate that yes, wanting the material goods of the big ring and the big wedding—or thinking your future bride wants those things— is a motivator.
Mocha’s Mom’s response:
Thanks for your answer, Duana. It seems the bar is higher than ever now — when women were totally dependent on men (or rather, women who were neither living in poverty nor filthy rich were dependents), all the man had to do was convince his beloved that he could support her. Now he thinks he has to provide strange and unnecessary items.
Your response to that fellow (Heath, at top) is absolutely fabulous. Kudos on that one!
As for me, well, I used to wear a “big rock” everyday (bought wholesale, BTW). It was pretty as heck, but it kept getting caught in things. I had to take it off so often I was worried I’d lose the darned thing. So, on our vacation, my husband and I went to the goldsmith’s store in Colonial Williamsburg and bought a modest gold band with a fiddly sort of celtic pattern. It was waaaaaaay cheaper than what people spend on wedding sets, but it suits me down to the ground. And it doesn’t get caught in every little thing.
Most welcome, MM—and thanks for yet another idea, wholesale!
Wise Readers, whatever holiday you and your celebrated this year, me and mine wish you happy and well. Happy New Year! Thank you for reading and continuing to be part of creating more love in the world and in your individual lives. May peace be in your homes, and in your hearts.
Cheers,
Duana
Links for this article are all found at the prior week’s column. All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D., and LoveScienceMedia, 2013, 2011.
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Dear Duana,
I am in a monogomous relationship with a woman that I love very much, and she me. We have been together about a year, and things have gone from good to great to wonderful. The subject of marriage has come up, although indirectly, but it’s clear that it is something that she wants in her future, and I now know that it is what I want as well. I also know that she is the one that I want to marry. (gulp!) [We’re buying a house together and] we have recently found out that she is pregnant, and we are ecstatic! Both of our families know, etc.
I am in the mindset that I would like to propose to her soon, like around the holidays, and do it in a very romantic fashion. Whether or not we marry before or after the baby is born doesn’t matter to me, it may to her, I don’t know.
The problem is this: We are both on a very tight budget, she goes to school, I work non-profit, etc., and with the additional cost of being about to buy a house, and have a baby, there is no way that I can currently afford to buy a diamond engagement ring. (This is where I need help).
Men don’t really know about things like this, I’ve never been married, or engaged, and what I know about the tradition is what I’ve seen in the movies and such. Pop the question, hold up a glistening diamond ring. Woman announces to friends that she is engaged, they all want to see the ring, etc. How important is this tradition? Does it have to be a diamond? Is another semi-precious stone, say her birthstone acceptable? I can’t fathom any way to make this romantic gesture with a note that says “sorry, I’ll buy you a ring when our kid has grown and I’ve paid off the car, etc…” Help!
Heath
First, allow me to congratulate you on finding love and deciding to commit, and also on your impending parenthood. You are a lucky man!
So here’s the deal with the ring. Women are pretty much universally seeking a man who is both willing and able to provide. The “willing” part of that statement is the crucial bit, once you’re able to provide for the basics. A man who can’t give the huge diamond—but who would if he could—is priceless. I have a feeling that is you.
Surely your bride-to-be knows this.
So here are a few possible suggestions:
1. Make the proposal its very own occasion, rather than a Christmas/Hanukkah/New Year’s/It’s Present Time occasion. Nothing says “This is our day” like it being…well, your day. Not anyone else’s. (Opinion Alert: This is just my opinion and I have zero research to back it up!)
2. Propose soon and forget the expensive wedding if you can’t afford it—the marriage is vital, the wedding is not. For whatever reason, lots of science shows that you’re likely to be more solid as a couple if you marry before baby than if you do it later. And the baby will do better, too, in terms of health and cognitive and emotional development; happy moms tend to produce happy babies who just plain do better in life, and part of that happiness is Not Wondering when you’re going to really commit. You know you want this. You know the Who and the Why. The How Soon is important. The How—is not. Take a note from Nike and Just Do It.
3. Propose in a romantic way that you think will impress your future wife. Women view The Ring as a sign of commitment and love, yes, but they also view The Way He Proposed in the same light. The ring can be expensive (we’re getting to that), but the proposal doesn’t have to be. For instance, if she loves Scrabble, you could ask her to play a game, and when she gets to the board you could have “Please Be My Wife” spelled out for her.
4. As for the jewelry: Only your sweetie knows how important a diamond is to her. It may not be a big deal to her; my own ring does not have a solitaire of *any* stone. (I don’t like jewelry that sticks up; in fact, I only have one ring, as I do not like ‘sets’ of jewelry.)
So before you propose (very soon!), I would suggest a ‘ring date’ where you tell her you’re interested in her ideas of a beautiful ring, and then you both look on the Internet and in stores. She will show you what she likes. That way, you’ll be in the clear to give her something she will want to wear every single day~a ring is so personal, she needs a say in it.
Also, this ‘ring date’ gives both of you the opportunity to discuss price. I know that’s not romantic, but it doesn’t have to be awful, either. Effectively, the money you spend on this ring is symbolizing your joint, combined money~from the point you give her the ring onwards, your finances will likely be combined along with all your other fortunes. So it makes good sense to yes, be generous, but also to make sure it’s a choice you make together.
As for cost, if she does prefer a large diamond, there are options such as buying a used ring/diamond (Ebay, Craigslist etc.), buying in installments, etc. The happiest couple I know is one where the wife is wearing a huge diamond her husband bought…for his first fiance, who jilted him!!! She thought it was ridiculous to sell the ring and buy another.
I know that’s not your situation, but what I’m getting at is this: This is really about the two of you. My guess is, this wonderful woman knows you are not the wealthy 1%, and she is delighted with you and will choose something you *can* afford. My guess is, she’ll be a lot better at letting you know what’s important to her in jewelry than I can be .
My guess is, once you tell her what you told me—how in love with her you are, how you can’t wait to combine your lives and futures, how you want to be a parent with her and you want to get married now—it won’t much matter what kind of ring is attached. It’s your heart a good woman wants most of all. And she has that.
Cheers,
Duana
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Q&A from “All She Wants For Christmas Is A Wedding Date”
From Joan N.: What If Darcy Had Proposed…And Been Rejected?
Oh my gosh, I LOVE this! I am so happy for Darcy and her baby!
Best case scenario, for sure.
But what if Darcy had proposed? Alex could have hemmed and hawed — or worse — been turned off for good. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20, and as you point out, it’s always preferable to be the high-status woman who keeps her power … but sometimes, well, for lack of good information or whatever the reason, we’ve all been in situations that were less than ideal … ..
I think what I’m trying to say is that Darcy is Very Fortunate. She was in tricky territory, which easily could have gone the other way. Frankly, I know first-hand about good women in her similar situation who end up as single mothers —many of whom receive only limited or sporadic support (financial or otherwise) from the Dad.
I especially like that Darcy asked for help with this, and took your advice to heed her own intuition about Alex.
I am so glad the situation worked itself out for Darcy and her family. She has been through an emotional time, which I would not wish on anyone. God bless her!