Q&A from "How To Find Normal Men"
Wise Readers,
Are rebound relationships the rule—or the exception? Does former pain open us to love—or close us to it? And what are the best ways to meet men (normal or not)?
Read on!
From Anonymous Single Female: Rebounding?
I like the article although I’m one of the ‘young ‘uns’. I’ve been warned off dating any man who is recently single. You say not to wait to date widowed men. Do you believe in rebound relationships or a time frame for dating men who have just gone through a break up or divorce?
Duana’s response:
Hi, Anonymous Single Female,
Thanks for writing in with a GREAT question—and one I’m surprised I only get now and then. It’s often assumed that relationships occurring soon after a breakup, divorce or widowhood will be Transitional…but there’s scant proof of to back that up.
Indeed, my advice to Judy was written too narrowly because it focused only on making sure to date the widowed right away (no waiting!). Most people who will ever remarry—male or female, post-divorce or after a significant others’ death—do it within three years of their divorce. Indeed, about 80% of folks who’ve been married will do it again, usually in that timeframe.
As time rolls on and age increases, though, remarriage rates favor men. This is partly because they usually marry down in age as their own age increases, and partly because they usually attempt to marry childless women. Breaking it down more finely, men who are divorced but childless most often attempt remarriage with women who have never been married, and men who are divorced and have kids most often try to wed a woman who has divorced but who has no children of her own.
Clearly there are many exceptions; you’re reading the words of one now.
Returning to your query, I don’t know of research on whether rebounding is the norm after breakups of dating/living together relationships. But from the marriage and widowhood data, it looks unlikely.
Instead, the data appear to say most of us, most of the time, find that the best cure for an old love is a new love—and that most of us seek that out sooner rather than later.
From Emily P: Best ways to meet men?
This made me wonder what you think are the best ways to meet men. I’m in my late 20s and i want to get married but I haven’t been close yet. I don’t seem to meet many men. Normal or not, lol. What do you recommend?
Duana’s response: Cast a wide net, use the 2-hour-date…and buy a book (or two)
Dear Emily,
Nice to hear another new voice at Love Science~and great question. How to meet men can prove difficult, especially once you’re out of college and are no longer necessarily surrounded by other singletons. Yet Judy, in her 60’s, is meeting plenty of men (formerly Weird—now more Normal per the article!). And as a sweet young thang, you certainly can, too.
My favorite book on the topic of dating is “If I’m So Wonderful, Why Am I Still Single?”. I can’t recommend it highly enough. Although Susan Page is no scientist, science backs her up—and she’s got a spot-on plan for finding a mate.
So let’s flip to chapter 3: “Abandon The Myth That There Are No Good Ways To Meet People”. And what you find there is a five-part formula about “maintaining a balance between doing nothing, on the one hand, and letting your life be controlled by your need to meet people, on the other.”
I won’t re-type her entire plan; that would cross the line into plagiarism, and what you really need is her book. But let’s delve a bit into parts 3 and 4.
Part 3: Go For Volume:
One of the best things Judy is already doing is meeting a *lot* of men. Judy is entering activities typically populated by men, in addition to the activities she herself already enjoys, and in this way she’s meeting enough new people all the time to keep the dating pool filled.
Everyone, of every gender or orientation, and no matter the age, needs to go for volume like that. But simply meeting a lot of people isn’t enough.
Nope. It’s not sufficient simply to meet a lot of men; it’s also critical that you *stop* dating men who are clearly a bad fit, as soon as you find that out. Again, Judy’s doing a fantastic job here. She is not falling into the pit of modern hookups, whereby a woman finally meets one man, commits herself to him as if it were a mini-marriage from moment 1 even if he has not said anything about any level of commitment, and hopes for the best.
(Lest anyone think I’m exaggerating, studies for the past 10 years show that today’s young men and women are more prone to engage in “hooking up” rather than dating. Hooking up is a nebulous state of affairs where folks get together without any firm plan; sex may or may not occur, but the central feature is the lack of definition of the relationship. Women in particular find themselves unhappy at not knowing if they’re even a girlfriend, let alone a prospective wife. Yet the women often spend months and years in a non-defined relationship with someone they aren’t actually sure would be right for them anyway.)
Nope. Judy gets it that you meet a lot of guys, quit dating anyone unworthy right away, and move on. Next!
I think she’s brilliant.
Part 4: Use The Two -Hour Date
A major part of meeting the right ones is rejecting the wrong ones—and very quickly, at that. How many women and men have I known who have languished in dead-end, non-committal and emotionally unsatisfying relationships for years? Too many. Time’s a’wastin’, it does nothing good for one’s youth and beauty, and it’s the one thing you can never reclaim.
So as you meet these guys—however you meet them (online, in clubs, at religious functions, through political or neighborhood or apartment or activist organizations, in hobbies, at bookstores)—only say yes to very brief, low-key dates right at first. Meet somewhere for a drink for one to two hours, max.
As Page puts it, “Two hours may not be enough to tell whether you have found your soul mate, but it is often enough to tell when you haven’t.”
Bonus: You as the woman gain status by not being clingy, trying to extend the date, or in general chasing men as if they were your last hope on the planet. If you like each other, the guy gets to experience longing…and that tends to move things off dead-center and into He Clearly Wants You territory very fast.
So, Emily, although there’s no magic list for finding men, there are ways to make sure you meet a lot more of them, plus spend a lot less time with the wrong ones so you’re still open when Mr. Right does enter the field. Go forth and meet many; spend two hours with quite a few; and seriously consider only those who seem a good fit. It works!
Mocha’s Mom’s response: Read The Rules, Get The Ring!
I think Duana has given super advice here for finding a non-toxic guy with decent relationship skills.
I should add that when looking for a normal guy, it is a good idea to hold your nose and read “The Rules.” Yes, the authors’ style and attitude sucks, but the actual Rules they give are really good — they just often have stupid reasons for what they recommend.
You really do have a better shot at avoiding toxic guys more easily if you don’t put up with a guy who calls you on Thursday for a Friday date, if you limit your time and contact with him, and if you completely avoid “desperate” behaviors.
In particular, you can winnow out a lot of the bad weirdness by NOT spending the whole night talking on the first date, and by NOT letting a guy tie up your phone and your time too early in the relationship.
To me, the worst sign that a guy is totally double-plus-un-good is when he latches on too quickly and tries to create an instant relationship. This is especially true if he has a set idea of what romantic is and shows up with a dozen roses at your work when you’ve only been on 2 dates. That’s the sign that he has a Hollywood idea of dating and relationships, and he will NOT be disillusioned by anything short of maximum immediate dumpage.
Also, real “traditional” type dates are important. Dinner and a movie will give you a chance to see how he treats the waitstaff, the ticket taker at the movies, and so forth. The more you get to see him interact with “little” people, the better.
And remember, if he brings a black rooster and a sacrificial knife to your home any time before the third date, that’s a really bad sign.
Duana’s response:
Mocha’s Mom,
Bravo! Couldn’t have said it better meself. By all means, do get “The Rules”, womanly peeps. The authors have no apparent clue as to why The Rules work; in my opinion, the book is insipid, catty and manipulative. However, if you do the behaviors in The Rules, you’re doing what research shows Works (for all the reasons Mocha’s Mom gave, plus oh so many I’ve belabored in former articles). You will succeed at finding love with someone who *actually wants you* (gasp!). He’s likely to be Normal! And here at Love Science, we’re all about what Works.
From Tom:
I’m speaking as an experienced person here. It matters what the person (guy or woman) experienced and learned from the prior relationship.
I was divorced … did not date anyone for a year … and then a woman ID’d me as a likely dating “target” and we were off to the races. But then she picked up some kind of red flag and told me “Sorry, we aren’t an item any more.” I was still mystified (although I should not have been) because I hadn’t yet admitted to myself that I needed to be a bit more autonomous (less pliant and deferential?) in a relationship.
But man, that second relationship sank the lesson in deep. I think that a guy who has learned how to be with (and without) another person will not need a long detox period.
But you won’t know this much info about a person without being around them. So you go for it and take it for what it is, until all the data are gathered. Bon appetit.
Duana’s response: Does pain open us to relationships—or close us down?
Tom! How nice to hear from you again. I’d like to take a bit of your idea and expand on it here.
Yes, indeed, it surely does matter what both people have gone through before getting together with someone new. It’s been my impression from Life as well as client work that most people harden after pain, rather than opening up. As we age and go through rejections and trauma from relationships, it can be the case that many folks simply aren’t open to Love anymore. Toooooo risky.
But that’s my impression. What does the research say? It agrees—at least a bit. Folks who have had the hardest, bitterest relationships before often really do have a tougher time establishing a stable, happy relationship. It’s not impossible—it’s just harder and requires lots of bravery.
Those data are correlational, though, so I could be wrong that the ex-relationship hardships cause the emotional shutdowns later. It could be that emotional shutdowns before all the relating caused both the earlier relationship to end, and later relationships not to get off the ground. Or it could be circular—hardship, emotional shutdown, emotional shutdown, hardship… Could be a lot of factors, life being the multi-variate phenomenon it is.
Thanks again for sharing your perspective
Cheers,
Duana
Related Love Science articles:
—How to find normal (or at least not weird) men
—Picking a good mate (without settling)
http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/settling-101-traits-for-a-mate.html
—Women As Sex Objects (beating the odds and becoming more datable age 50+)
—When First Love Is True Love (renewing your ties to an old flame)
—Why Not To Friend Your Old Flame On Facebook (how to ruin a perfectly good marriage)
—Dealing with difficult men
http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/dealing-with-your-difficult-man.html
—Dealing with difficult women
http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/dealing-with-your-difficult-woman.html
—Opposites working out their differences/Solving unsolvable problems
and
The author wishes to thank the following scientists and sources:
A lot of the information in this article comes from my knowledge of the fields of psychology and aging, social psychology, and general psychology, as well as from topics I have written about formerly. Other sources include these:
—John C. Cavanaugh and Fredda Blanchard-Fields, for their overview of marriage, remarriage and widowhood in Adult Development & Aging
—Nancy Kalish, for her research into old flames and her e-book on the topic of Lost & Found Lovers
—Susan Page, whose masterwork on dating should be required reading; here’s the link.
—The Rules—the book I love to hate. Indeed, I hate to acknowledge this book at all, but it Works…even if the authors are clueless about why, and even if it will insult your intellect (and it will).
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All material copyrighted by LoveScienceMedia and by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D., 2011
Do you have a question for Duana? Write to her atDuana@LoveScienceMedia.com.
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