Q&A from "The How To Say No Primer"

Wise Readers,

Should sixth-graders even be allowed to attend dances?  Won’t it lead to…sex?  What are the risk factors for early sex, anyway—and what can you do to prevent that at your house?  Does the community have to go along, or can you go it alone? 

Read on!          

From Joan N: —How To Deal With The Pressures My Daughter Feels To Grow Up Too Fast?—

Thank you x 1 million for posting this article. This is SO helpful. As I child I was expected to “just know things.” Unlike your girl, I didn’t feel close enough to my own mother to just ask her. I’m determined to do better with my offspring.

Speaking of which, she is 11, almost 12. She feels she is “growing up too fast” and has verbalized it. What she means is that others around her are growing up too fast and she doesn’t like it. A report from yesterday at Middle School: “MOM! A boy and a girl were KISSING in the hall! I always see them holding hands”

UGH. Really??

I am receiving additional reports of girls wearing make-up and hair-color (which I personally witnessed when distributing schedules the day before school) ….and dressing to impress, shall we say..

Being asked to a dance? Noooooo. Even attending the dance with friends? Noooo. All of that feels way to grown-up for my girl. She wants to remain in girlhood for she fears that leaving girlhood means losing her relationship with her Dad. It’s complicated. Quite possibly I/we need a therapist!

Anyway, being in Middle School has suddenly expanded my daughter’s world about 10-fold. There are so many influences over which I no longer have control. Yes, I can limit her TV, movies, media, etc. to wholesome shows and books. However, at the moment I’m feeling a bit Amish, and I mean that in the most respectful way to the Amish possible.

When I was in 6th grade, I don’t recall any dances, or kissing, or romance of any level. I think boys and girls starting “going together” (i.e., going steady) in about the 7th grade …? But even then it only meant walking to classes together.

I just hate that society is pushing our girls forward in a way that I consider is too soon. Not only that, their hormones are pushing them forward at a jaw-dropping rate. By 5th grade, many girls have started their cycles and are noticeably developed.

I know I am rambling, but the bottom line is: THANK YOU for saying that not everyone is ready for dances, and saying NO is perfectly, wonderfully, and completely OK.

As an expert in developmental psych, do you think school-sponsored dances in the 6th grade are a good idea?

Duana’s response:  —Which Kids Have Sex Early, Why, And How To Stack The Odds That Yours Is Not One Of Them—

Dear Joan, 
Great hearing from you! You and I have some things in common: We have daughters around the same age, and we both struggle with our feelings and comfort level and knowledge base of What To Say And Do as they are pulled/pushed/drawn towards sexual maturation, social independence…and away from our loving arms.

And our daughters have some things in common, too. They both appreciate their girlhood and are loathe to give up on it too soon. My daughter often says—doubtless, parroting me through the years—, “I only get one childhood and I am not going to let anyone rush it.” And both feel some degree of pressure from the social scene around them—a scene that has placed them with kids who are willing to grow up much faster than we or our own girls would like.

Let’s look at that. At what age do American kids typically start ‘dating’—defined by researchers in the adolescent studies area as spending time or going to events with someone the child has romantic feelings toward? In 2004, Connolly and others found that around age 10 or 11, kids start spending some time with both boys and girls (‘mixed-gender groups’), and that across grades 5-8, these activities increase steadily.

And what’s the sexual outcome of that? “The first romantic or sexual behaviors often occur in this context (Hyde & Delamater, Understanding Human Sexuality, 11th edition, page 221). “

YIKES.

*PAUSES to put hands over ears, close eyes, and shout: “I can’t heaaaar youuuuuu lalalalalalalaaaaaa”*

Okay, before I freak out too much more, or encourage you to do the same, I should warn you that the ‘sexual behaviors’ that half of 13-year-olds say they’ve done include what your daughter saw in the halls of the middle school: holding hands, hugging, and kissing. Going ‘all the way’ is rather uncommon.

But not as uncommon as I’d like it to be. Apparently, just under 10% of 13-year-olds say they have had heavy sexual activity like intercourse or touching another person/being touched below the waist. And here’s the part most relevant to your question: “those who reported heavy activity also reported going out on dates alone (without friends). Results from three surveys of nationally representative samples indicate that by age 14, about 20 percent of boys and girls have engaged in heterosexual intercourse. Many are in dating or ‘romantic’ relationship(s)….Thus the progression from mixed-gender activities to dyadic dating is paralleled by a progression in the development of physical intimacy (also from Hyde & Delamater, 11th edition of Understanding Human Sexuality, p. 221; emphasis added.).”

But before we lock our daughters in the family domiciles until their eighteenth birthdays, let’s look at the Big Picture. According to a great review of the scientific literature in Robert Crooks’ and Karla Baur’s 11th edition of Our Sexuality (see pp. 358 and 359, “factors that predispose teenagers to early or late onset of coitus”), there are numerous variables that predict which kids are going to start having intercourse while they’re still just kids.

The kids who start having sex early tend to have some or all of the following powerful risk factors:

—poverty
—violence in the family
—marital disruption (which could include parents moving in and out repeatedly—not just divorce)
—teens living in single-parent families
—teens living in ‘reconstituted’ families (Just add water? This indicates stepfamilies; living with mom’s new boyfriend; etc.)
—low parental education
—substance abuse (especially alcohol)
—low self-esteem
—feeling hopeless
—doing poorly in school
—low educational expectations
—tolerance for antisocial behavior
—having delinquent friends/peers
—watching a lot of sexual content on TV
—having been sexually victimized
—lack of parental supervision (dating without peers or parents goes here!)

On the other hand, copious research also points towards some powerful predictors of abstinence (not abstinence forever or until marriage—just abstinence for longer than other kids), including kids who have: 
—strong religious beliefs
—active religious participation
—a feeling of being spiritually interconnected with their friends
—the late onset of puberty
—parents who say, flat-out, that they disapprove of teens having sex
—good grades
—high SES (socioeconomic status; it’s not only about how much money flows into the household, it’s also about how much education the parents have)
 —parents who expect them to achieve
—a good relationship with their parents
—open communication with their parents
—the belief that at least one adult really, really cares about them

Now, these data are all based on correlations, because it would be immoral or impossible to do experiments that deprive kids of some or all of these things to see what would happen to them. And as I’m ever reminding my students, correlations don’t tell us cause. (They also don’t not tell us cause. Correlations just can’t, by themselves, reveal cause-effect.)

BUT.

What is really, really clear is that how quickly children grow up and lose their sexual innocence is not just about dating. Life is messy, and any one thing we or our kids do is influenced by many factors. It’s Not Just One Thing.

Upshot? Joan, in my opinion, the age of eleven is a bit early for dances…and it’s entirely, entirely too soon for unsupervised dates. Our school permits and encourages supervised dances as a social perk for good grades, perhaps without having weighed just how much pressure the mere concept of a dance puts on children who are not yet twelve. Frankly, the pressure itself can launch kids on a more adult-type path than many of them are really ready for.

But the good news is this.

While it would be nice for the whole community to agree with us on this, it’s not necessary. The #1 source most kids would prefer to listen to and follow in their private lives—including their sexual decisions—is The Parents. It’s tough for kids to follow parental guidance if the parents aren’t doing much guiding. But as long as you’re talking, your daughter is listening. I’ve written more about that here: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/sex-kids-have-questionsyouve-got-answers.html

And if you and your daughter decide she can attend the dances—chaperoning never hurts.

Joan’s response: —What Do I Do? And How Do I Get The Community On Board?—

This is fantastic info!

I feel somewhat encouraged but also exhausted that I’m facing a tidal wave of pressure on our kids/my girl. I feel my girl’s pain. Frankly I am MIFFED that the school would sponsor dances in the 6th grade. Yes, I realize they are chaperoned. Yes, I realize that me, myself, and I can be present to chaperone. I hear that. However, my very presence at the dances would signal that I agree with them. Which I don’t. The subtext is mating, and I feel the school is encouraging it by offering mating-fests to girls who are barely 11.

(One moment …. What’s that cackling I hear?! Oh, yes, the gaggle of other moms in the background clucking: “Oh,Joan! How Victorian of you! …! It’s just fun! For gosh sakes, LOOOOSEN UP!” )

Let them cackle.

I think by offering a dance the school is messaging the expectation that kids should attend and there’s something odd about them if they don’t. In my view, the administration should at least say in a clear and official way, “We KNOW this isn’t for everyone. Attend now or attend later; plenty more opportunities ahead” to give the reluctant kids a face-saving way to decline.

I think my plan will be to observe an actual dance so I know what I’m talking about. I would like to see what actually goes on there. Yes, I realize the kids’ behavior won’t be overt because the adults will be present, but I am very good at reading the subtext, as all observant Mamma Bears are.

Perhaps after viewing an actual dance event I will change my mind. Until then, the rule in my house will be my girl is not allowed to attend until I have more info.

Aren’t the school and the parents supposed to be partners? NOW is the time to reduce the pressure on mating and build the idea of waiting. I’m not talking about hanging abstinence posters in the halls (we all know that doesn’t work) but how about putting the nix on the school-sponsored dances until 8th grade? That could be a senior perk.

I would like to know how these dances got started in the first place. My guess is the some precocious parent thought they would be “fun.” Parents need to be educated in what is developmentally appropriate for their children! So many of us who don’t have older children are wondering what the heck is going on. You are doing a great job addressing that, and how about a primer for parents …? 

Middle school is THE time to get good info to both the parents and the kids. Agree? Like all parents, I want my daughter to succeed in whatever way God has planned, be happy, and have a good life! So what else do I need to know ??

Duana’s response: —On Making Your Own Rules & Advocating For Your Own Child —

Hi, Joan,

There’s so much good stuff in your letter, I don’t know where to start. But I think I will begin with this:

You have all the markers of a family where the early-sexuality issue is going to be a non-issue. Sure, it’s an issue inasmuch as you have to think carefully about your own child, your own values, and how you want to respond to the environment in your girl’s best interest. But your girl will thrive precisely *because* you will attend to those tasks so carefully. See that risk-factors list in my last note? You’re poster-peeps for the *low*-risk group. Your girl has so much going for her, most of all, YOU.

I wanted to quote you again on this because in my opinion it bears repeating: “Aren’t the school and the parents supposed to be partners? NOW is the time to reduce the pressure on mating and build the idea of waiting. I’m not talking about hanging abstinence posters in the halls (we all know that doesn’t work) but how about putting the nix on the school-sponsored dances until 8th grade? That could be a senior perk.”

Joan, I don’t know who decided that eleven-year-olds are to be treated, socially, the same way as the 14-year-olds, or even if it was a decision rather than a default. Per the research on Where Early Sexuality Gets Us (answer: no place good, now or in later life), And What Gets Us To Early Sexuality (unsupervised dates, peer influence, etc.), I am in agreement with you that hosting dances for eleven-year-olds is something I’d rather the schools didn’t do. Moreover, *your particular child* has shown and said point-blank that she is Not Ready! That must be honored. I fully support you in expressing your thoughts to the school; I’d do it right along with you, and I really don’t care if anyone thinks I’m Victorian.

(Although, given many of the articles I’ve written, and the sheer number of times I’ve said ‘penis size’, being called Victorian would amuse me mightily.)

Beyond approaching the school to change the age at which dances are offered, though, you bring up what you, and I, and any parent can do that will have immediate impact, with or without community consent: Make Your Own Rules, Based On Your Own Values~And Discuss It All With Your Child.

We do a number of things in our house that are unusual in our community. But we do them, without community support, based on our values and (of course!) the research.  For instance, some of the values we discuss and act on are: Spending Face Time With Family & Friends, Amusing Ourselves/Filling Our Time Creatively, Embracing The Age We Are, Learning & Practicing Kindness and Respect, and Loving Our Bodies & Our Health.

Some of the non-community-typical ways we encourage the values are these: Well, first off, we discuss them wherever and whenever the opportunity arises. Then, we put them into action in our house. For instance, our daughter has friends over nearly every day, and we eat dinner together as a family every night. In the absence of any kind of screen in her room, the absence of a personal cell phone, the absence of any device of her own with unfettered internet access, and the presence of friends and a mom who really want to see her a lot, she’s learned to fill her time with cooking, baking, reading, and crafting, and she has all the supplies and encouragement (and when she wants it, companionship) to do these things. The computer is in a common area where I can see the screen. The number of violent video games in the house is zero. Screentime—any screen—is limited to one hour a day of age-appropriate content. If she gets sassy after watching a show, there’s a warning; if the sass lasts, that show goes. My husband and I do not watch movies/TV while she is still awake (unless it’s a date night and we are watching a movie, door to our room closed). There are no women’s magazines in the house; the only women she sees on a reliable basis are real women with real bodies. We exercise daily. And our daughter, not we, decided that eating mammals just wasn’t going to occur at our house anymore (!).

Oh, and until she has flown the nest, she’s not allowed—ever, even when she is old enough to go on unsupervised dates—to go out on a date that the guy didn’t give her at least four days’ advance notice of. :)

I’m not saying everyone else ‘should’ do things our way, any more than we would appreciate being told to do things theirs. But—and I guess this is what I’m really getting at, Joan—it works at our house because *here, we are The Parents*. Our girl is fine with all of this—more than fine, she agrees and initiates some of it! She has, after all, been raised by us, with constant communication back-and-forth (not just The Law Laid Down On Her).  As the research shows—most kids ultimately agree with their parents’ values, as long as the parents show and *tell* kids what their values are.

So Joan, if you decide to approach the school, I’ll go with you. And if you decide to tell your daughter why you want her to avoid dances until 8th grade, I’m in your corner. Nobody knows your child like you do.  From what you’ve said, it seems that in deciding to have your daughter Otherwise Occupied on dance nights, you are protecting her own stated emotions and development, and furthering your values simultaneously. Win-win.

That is what you are supposed to do; nobody can advocate for your child like you can. You = awesome. I = with you all the way!

PS: “Middle school is THE time to get good info to both the parents and the kids. Agree? Like all parents, I want my daughter to succeed in whatever way God has planned, be happy, and have a good life! So what else do I need to know ??”

Yes, Joan, I do agree. As I so often do with you! There seems to be a shortage of research-based books on how to help tweens and teens with issues of emotional maturation and socializing with the opposite sex (writing about Every Aspect Of Their Lives might be a bit much for just one me. But the relationship piece…). Hmmmm. Perhaps you’ve just given me a book idea…

As far as what you REALLY need to know, you know it now: Know your child. Know your values. Communicate your values to your child, in your words and in your actions. And make rules accordingly.

Joan’s response: —Yes, A Book!—

Thank you x 1 million. I love reading your column and look forward to your books. The first person in line will be ME, and I’ll take mine autographed, please.

From Jackie: —Yes, I Want A Book For Teens!—

We didn’t have dances until 7th and 8th grade, but that is because 6th grade was either still in elementary schools or stand-alone “6th Grade Centers.” And, when we did go in 7th grade, we went alone, and danced with friends.

Duana (and Joan), I’d like to hear your observations as a chaperone. Evidently, from what I’ve heard, dances now are nothing like they were when I was a teen.

I do think a book for teens has merit. When I was in school, I read whatever was sitting on a table, including brochures from my mother’s volunteer work with the Rape Crisis Center. Those pamphlets gave me some street smarts that I still reference today, and that certainly helped to protect me over the years.

(Note to self: I’ll have to ditch women’s magazines when my daughter gets older, though these days all I read is “More” magazine, lol.)

Duana’s response:

Dear Jackie (and Joan), thank you for your note and encouragement. My understanding is that at this age, “Will you go to the dance with me?” is best translated as, “Will you meet me at the same time and place, and move about in my vicinity?” 

That said, I’m signed up to chaperone only at one middle school—not all of them. Your mileage may vary :).

Cheers,

Duana

Related LoveScience articles:

The scientific bases for this week’s article have been covered before; I hope you enjoy re-reading some of these:

Prefrontal cortex development:   http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/young-love-young-marriage.html

Whether, When, How, and How Often to talk to your kids about S-E-X: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/sex-kids-have-questionsyouve-got-answers.html

The author wishes to thank the scientists and sources linked in the article. 

Do you have a question for Duana?  Email her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com.  You’ll get a confidential, personal response, and if your letter is ever used on-site, your name and identifying information will be altered and your letter will be edited prior to publication. 

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D., and LoveScience Media, 2012.  

Comments

[Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.]

From a Wise Reader who wrote to me asking me to post this comment:

Duana,

Your daughter is so very fortunate to have such a wise and knowledgeable mother to help her navigate the torturous terrain of teenage traumas. Perhaps at some point, you could write another column to help shy boys accept “No” graciously, and not let it scar them for life.

In the meantime, I would call attention to a movie seen recently on the Hallmark Channel, “How to Fall in Love,” which is scheduled to repeat on October 12. For shy teenagers, it might more accurately have been titled, “How to Talk to Girls…And Even Ask for a Date.”

http://www.hallmarkchannel.com/howtofallinlove/video/Preview/HowtoFallinLove

Respectfully, Hal

[Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.]

Dear Hal,

Thank you for the praise and the article/movie suggestion. At this point, I don't know any research on helping boys (shy or otherwise) to accept a No, but I agree that it's worth finding out. There are some great studies on shyness and overcoming or living well with it that should help a lot. Thank you again.

Cheers,
Duana