Q&A from "I Can't Make You Love Me...Or Can I?"

Wise Readers,

Is love a choice~but only for women?  Why are 100% of the ‘how can I make [name] love me’ letters from women?  Should you marry someone who loves you more than you love them?  And how can men simultaneously love longest…but get re-involved quickest?   

Read on!

From Tabitha:   —Can Women Choose Whether To Love?—

Your article implies that women can be won over and men can’t. I’ve seen it too. I’ve seen something else as well. I think women can choose whether to love. Do you agree?

Duana’s response:

Dear Tabitha, Yes. For at least some women (many more women than men, I vouch), some of the time, there is a choice of whether or not to love. Women can be downright logical and calculating about shutting their hearts, or at least moving on in spite of their feelings, whereas men seem to have far, far less choice in the matter.  Likewise, at least some women, some of the time, can choose to keep their hearts Open to a man who might not ring their bells at first, but who seems to have the right stuff for the long-term. 

My first encounter with that (to me) shocking possibility came years ago when a cousin casually informed me that she had decided against loving a particular man. “It’s a choice, you know.”

Really?!

Yes, I now think. Really.

Take the evidence of women ending most of the male-female relationships that break up. Take the evidence of women saying they are over it sooner than the guys are. And then take the evidence that women tend to open themselves to men who are good providers and protectors. It’s pretty easy to find stories, whether in history or just your own town, of women who began to fall for a man, discovered he lacked resources, and then chose another man instead. Or of women who, upon finding that a man with resources would not share them, broke it off with him.  Or of women who, not finding a particular man to be hottt, decided to give him more of a chance once she found out a) everyone else thought he was a catch; b) he possessed resources; c) he had a commitment mindset; d) all of the above. 

When women choose men, they are making a life/death decision…at least, from the standpoint of the inherited psychology we women share. The choice is between someone who can and will keep us and any offspring safe, and someone who cannot or will not do so. A man’s ability to provide can be seen on a balance sheet, but his willingness is only conveyed indirectly~through devotion, commitment, ambition, love. It can take a woman quite some time to discern that willingness. A wrong guess could and still can be devastating to her, and to her children.

So here’s what I think: Just as many women *can* be led to love a man they don’t initially care for, many women can also make a choice about it. It’s a choice to open one’s heart, or to close it. And it’s about survival.

From JoAnna and Spice: —We Stopped Trying To Make Men Love Us, And Reciprocal Love Is So Much Happier— 

JoAnna writes: If only I had seen this two years ago. In January I got out of a two year “relationship” with a man who could never reciprocate my love for him. Now, I am happily dating a guy who is head-over-heels for me. Its a much happier/ easier relationship because I don’t have to force anything. Thank you for this wonderful article, so true! (:

Spice writes:  JoAnna, I was about to provide a very similar comment — you beat me to it! :) I can only add — I was the one who cut off my non-relationship, and it felt like I was going to die. It sounds cliche, but I was sure I’d never find anyone so wonderful and perfect as him. I moped for months. But, I also didn’t call, write, or talk to him, or even return his messages except for one very brief “Thanks for your concern. I’m fine. Sorry I’m quiet but it is what I need. Thanks for understanding.” That’s really important for the healing process.

Then, when I healed and was ready, I met the Best Man Ever (sorry ladies… he’s now taken). He tells me he knew from the first time we locked eyes. :-) It turns out that what I thought was a perfect fit, wasn’t… and I’m no spring chicken, so you think I’d know better. Perhaps there is no “perfect fit.” But what was best, for me at least, was for him to know first and for-sure-est, and for me to be attracted at first, but to “know” a little more slowly. Now, all we have is love, love, love. :-) and understanding. and mutual respect. and desire and willingness to fulfill the needs of the other first. :-)

All the best to you, Yvonne. You have the strength within you to see the truth and act on it. As a very wise Friend once told me: “There’s a name for girls who wait for fairy tales and miracles: Lonely.” (love you, Dr. D!) Show yourself the respect you deserve and settle for nothing less than Real Love.

— :-)

From Christine: —“Marry A Man Who Loves You More Than You Love Him” = Good Advice?—

Great topic! Since my early 20s, the older, more experienced women in my life have been telling me that when I marry, I must marry “a man who loves you (me) more than you (I) love him”. In my youth, I thought it was silly and dated advice. But the more life experience I gained, the more I saw the truth in that simple yet complex idea.

These women weren’t telling me to use men, or look at love as a commodity to buy, sell, and trade…. They were simply saying what was reiterated in this week’s article…. which is that when it comes to long-term partnerships, such as marriage, the most fruitful relationships tend to be ones where the man chased (and won over) the woman, not the other way around.

Duana’s response: —Why Women Chase Men…And Why It Doesn’t Work—

Dear JoAnna, Spice, and Christine, thank you so much for your own stories. Did you know that 100% of the “How Can I Make This Person Love Me” letters I’ve gotten are from women? Yes, yes they are.

And that’s interesting in itself, don’t you think? Maybe it’s because of mating-centrism, my term for when we use our own mating psychology on the opposite sex, with often-calamitous results.

Explanation:

The single-biggest thing women are seeking in a long-term mate is provision and protection, and the single-biggest sign that a man will provide and protect is his level of commitment—his sheer love and devotion felt and shown to that particular woman. Thus, men who pursue, especially in the face of dire odds against success, are very often rewarded for it, even when the woman did not initially love (or sometimes even like) him. Faithful lover often wins Fair Lady’s hand.

The problem comes when women turn this around and apply it to men, assuming that because More Pursuit might win their own hearts, More Pursuit will win their chosen’ man’s devotion. It will not. More Pursuit will turn a man off, off, off. Men, seeking signs of status, value what is difficult to obtain, and pursuing a man is the very antithesis of hard-to-get.

Upshot? We can’t force a man to love us, but we can sure as heck force him not to. And it’s very often tempting to use the exact tactics to turn a man on that will instead turn him away.

So I am delighted to hear that all three of you have found your way out of biases/relationships that weren’t to your happiness. And JoAnna and Spice, kudos on having fallen for the men who found and fell for you !

Duana’s response: —Why Yes, It’s More Important For Men To Fall Hardest and First—

Christine, I loved your letter because you pointed towards a topic I’d like to treat in more detail in another column: Is it more important for the man not only to fall first, but hardest?

Yes.

I’ve often witnessed that men who must be dragged into a relationship must be dragged all the way through it. Women sometimes believe that ‘he’ll change once we’re married’, and they are right; he will be even less interested in the relationship than he was before.

If a man is letting the woman do the heavy lifting in courtship, she can look forward to doing the heavy lifting in the entire relationship. It’s not to say that he’s a bad man; for another woman—one he felt like working to have—he could be a splendid catch. But he’s no catch for the woman who feels she must do the work of catching him.

So yes, Christine, marry a man who loves you more than you love him. That’s a path towards a full partnership, one where you are treated with love and concern; one where love makes the time pass rather than time making the love pass. Science to come in another article!

From Tom: —A Guy’s Perspective On Her Attractiveness and His Availability—

Dear Dr Duana -

I’m a guy, and based on my own in-depth observations of me … there’s another factor worth considering in addition to youth/beauty and fidelity. In fact, since I’m in my 50s, I don’t necessarily care about “chronological youth” as long as I sense “mental youth” or attitudinal youth. In other words, I am hot for a woman in her 50s who looks like she’s in her early 40s and who dresses to show off her “fitness”.

The other factor? The Man’s Availability. A man’s Availability is all in his own mind, I admit. It can be related to his financial state, or his life experiences (or lack thereof). A guy may think he needs to date and go to bed with a number of women before he suddenly decides that he’d like to be with one really good woman. On the other hand, a man who is having little luck dating women may be mentally Available to the first woman who shows real interest in him.

In my case, I loved someone for three years until it became clear that she could not be in my life. We broke it off. Surprisingly, I met another woman about two months after my breakup. She is awesome, but it has taken me a few months to feel truly Available to her. So, even though I was interested from the start, I feel like I’ve been slowly feeling increasing love for my new person. She’s definitely worth it.

Just thought you’d find these additional observations interesting ;-)

Duana’s response:

Hi, Tom,

Thanks for your letter. I appreciate your insights and the addition of your masculine take to this discussion.

You’re right, men don’t solely base the youth part of ‘youth and beauty’ on chronology. Youth and beauty are about vigorous health/fertility signs; we’ve probably all known technically young people with few such signs. And conversely, there are women who maintain an appearance of youth past youth itself.

But most men do discriminate in part based on chronology. Many studies show that in online dating, men filter for particular ages without bothering to look to see if particular women might defy the stereotypes; by their fifties, most men want a woman at least 12 years younger than themselves, and many of those men screen accordingly online. The richer the guy, the more apt he is to do so, since he’s more equipped to trade with what women want.

But with all generalizations, even those heavily data-driven, there are exceptions; there are the smokers who live ‘til 100, and the LoveScientists who have open-heart surgeries required by less than .02% of the population ;).  There are guys who date older women, or women who are older than what the science usually finds men searching for.  It’s just unusual.  

The desire for at least the appearance of youth and beauty, though, seems to be pretty constant. More on that here: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/women-as-sex-objects-youth-beauty-and-beating-the-odds.html

And Tom, I do indeed find your own love story very interesting. Also, kudos on finding someone you love! I am happy for you both.

You point out something that has confused me a bit in the science. On the one hand, it’s almost a truism now, per science, that men fall in love not just first and hardest (when they fall), but that men fall in love *longest*. That is, data show that the person who gives up on or ends a relationship first is usually the woman; that most divorces are filed by women; that women usually say they’ve moved on emotionally sooner than men say they have.

Yet it’s the formerly-partnered men who often get involved in a new relationship, particularly a serious committed relationship, *sooner* than women. Following a divorce, men usually remarry in a year or so; ditto for men’s behavior after the death of a beloved spouse. Women usually take longer, if they marry at all. The reasons for women’s hesitation, and men’s seeming rush by comparison, are complex and numerous.

But the fact that men say they love longer, yet get involved sooner after the ending of a love affair, has me wondering what’s up, emotionally. Any ideas?

Tom’s response:

Oh Yeah. I have ideas ;-)

You may be already aware that I was in a fairly long-term, long-distance relationship recently. I loved her and she loved me, and we both knew it. But there came a point where she expected more of me - but at the same time offered less than I would have needed in order to stay in her life. I balked, and she then wrote a “Maybe I would be better without a man” letter. I took that as a sign that this relationship was going to end, and after a certain amount of mutual hedging, she did indeed end it. In other words, she responded to one of my cheery attempts to communicate with “Please stop contacting me.”

At that point, I did stop. And my heart stopped wanting her, wanting what I knew I would not be able to have with her. BUT … this is the important part … I felt very CONFIDENT in myself then. I felt like “Okay - I felt love and I liked it. I liked doing love for someone else. I can do this again with another person, someone who is actually in my own town.” I got on Match.com about one month after ending with S. I just figured I would meet some new, interesting people and enjoy going out with them. Go figure, I met someone who felt as excited about meeting me as I did about meeting her … within three weeks of joining Match.

I am not sure whether this new love is going to end with us being together long term. It’s been six months plus. I have never had a one-night fling, anyway, and this is no exception. But I am finding that I am GROWING in my caring about her, because it has taken some time for my previous attachment to get out of the way. I still agree with you that men fall first, and fall harder, and stay in love longer than any woman I’ve ever known to do. And I am concerned that my new love’s initial attraction to me can evaporate at any time, for reasons obscure and random. She has given me strong signs of interest so far … and she has also blown her cool (reacted negatively to things I’ve done, things I didn’t see as big things). That makes me take each day as it comes. I’m not looking for anyone else. One person at a time in my life.

Duana’s response: 

Tom, personal experience and heartache can be enough to keep emotions at bay until trust has been established, I agree, and am sorry not to have acknowledged the point in my initial response.

I am reminded of a man who told me he couldn’t go near the mushy greeting cards section of stores for years after his marriage ended. He was able to enter another marriage, but not to relax into the safety of the second relationship for a long while. His experience was one of simultaneous yearning for love, recognizing he’d found it, and anxiety that stopped him from fully feeling it. The result was a gradual unfolding of love that was already there…or perhaps better-said, a love that was there but a trust that had to build.

I am happy for you that you are building trust with someone new.

From Jackie: —I’m Not His First Love, But I’m The Last—

“Lucky is the man who is the first love of a woman, but luckier is the woman who is the last love of a man.”

I can hear the collective hand-wringing for Yvonne from all the women reading, about how true Dr. D’s response is. And though I sometimes feel that I “caught” my love, the truth is that during our very long courtship, there were three pivotal moments where I “left” (including the final time where there was Competition) which align with Dr. D’s past advice to other women (was it Ingrid?). Once my sweetheart finally let go of the ghost of his unattainable First Love, I became his Last Love (fingers crossed for a long life together!)

Don’t give up your Youth & Beauty to someone who is not Head Over Heels.

And I had a thought: We like to think that we are so complex and unpredictable. I thought my experiences were unique to me and my courting dyad. But, Dr. D., you comb the science. I am surprised at how often my “gut” response when reading a reader’s question, aligns completely with the science. Your writing style just adds tremendously to the fun of reading it.

As a P.S., I always look forward to a Guy’s Perspective from Tom.

Duana’s response:

Wise advice, Jackie~ and well-done on your own behalf! Kudos!  Thank you also for your kind and humbling words.  When I first began poring over the science, I was simultaneously humiliated and vindicated; humiliated because my experiences weren’t as unique as I had imagined; and vindicated, because that very lack of uniqueness meant I could Do Something about the future. 

Thanks for reading and commenting~all of you.

 Cheers,

Duana

Do you have a question for Duana?  Email her at Duana@lovesciencemedia.com for a confidential, personal answer to your question; if it’s ever used on-site, your name will be changed and your letter edited to protect your privacy.

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D., and LoveScience Media, 2012.

Related LoveScience articles:

The article on which this Q&A is based: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/i-cant-make-you-love-meor-can-i.html

Love at first sight: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/love-at-first-sight-or-the-truth-about-lies.html

Men, dopamine, and love: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/when-men-wait-for-sex-dumb-like-a-fox.html

Mating-centrism and being hard-to-get: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/hard-to-get-mating-centrism-and-other-pitfalls-of-early-dati.html

Men’s preference for Youth & Beauty (and how to be beautiful at any age):  http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/women-as-sex-objects-youth-beauty-and-beating-the-odds.html