Dating The Not-Quite-Divorced
Dear Duana,
I’ve gotten involved with three women I met online in the last year, only to find they were all still married. I had asked each of them whether their divorce was final before meeting in person, and they all said yes! Do I need to see finalized legal papers before I can meet someone for coffee?
Dan
Dear Duana,
I’m a single mom, and I’ve been set up with another single parent who is ‘not quite divorced’. Do you think he’s on the rebound? Should I suggest he contact me when the divorce is final? Should I have one coffee date and see what I think?
Cindy
Dear Dan: Yes.
Dear Cindy: Maybe. Yes. No.
Dear, me. (Oy!)
First off, why are many people so eager to date before they’re divorced—sometimes to the point of hiding their still-married status? It makes a lot of sense when you see it from their side.*
—Human Connection:
People need love, or at least some contact. Many studies confirm that isolation doesn’t just make us miserable, it can literally make us ill. So imagine you’re lonely in a marriage—and then you find out that because of a vast array of legal, financial, parenting, and partner issues, the divorce itself is going to take years:
“[There’s a] mandatory 2-year separation period in our state….He got an apartment, and still came ‘home’ after work for months to help put our two young children to bed as neither of us emotionally was ready to tell the kids. Eventually, we told them, and about 2 years later our divorce was final…..[He also] knew that it would take me time to re-enter the workforce after having been a stay at home mom to our children, and that after we were divorced I would have no health insurance… So he stayed ‘married’ to me until I [could support myself]….That’s a long time to be legally married to someone that has clearly moved on (he moved in with his girlfriend after about a year). “
Unsurprisingly, some folks are unwilling to extend their emotional exile. Maybe they just want fun, sex, and a break from the bleakness. Perhaps they’re ready for a new commitment, especially if the old one was broken long ago a’ la strangers under one roof. They might not think they owe loyalty to a feckless, faithless mate, or one who prolongs the proceedings.
And evolutionarily speaking, women might accurately feel they are running out of time; with every decade past men’s 20s, guys who can snag ever-younger partners do, leaving straight women of their own cohort short of available mates:
“….[My now-ex] said I had no right to date because we were ‘still married’, ha! We were only ‘still married’ because he was refusing the divorce! I was in my late 30’s and unprepared to spend the rest of my life waiting for him to let go as I watched the good men snapped up by other, younger, women….”
As you’ve found, Dan, some of the not-quite-divorced lie to get a little contact. They might fear rejection; they may not have thought through the consequences. But still, it’s misleading:
“I knew that when I said “I’m divorced” he thought that it was official… I just didn’t want to get into the whole “I’m in the process” conversation. Well, this relationship flourished and we started dating exclusively. At this point I started to feel really guilty….I felt that if I told him that truth he would be angry at me for not telling him sooner and not trust me….”
—Mate Bait:
Aaaand then, there are the folks who use separation as a testing ground for the supposedly-deceased marriage. Consciously or not, these people are using you as a jealousy-inducer—a way to renew their marriage bonds and reinvigorate their spouse’s affections by showcasing how desirable they are to others:
“….We dated for a couple months before she told me she was married but didn’t wear a ring because she felt divorce was imminent. We only lasted a couple more months before the stress of seeing each other while she was still married overwhelmed us…..We said we would take it up when the divorce was complete, and the house was sold. It only took another 18 years for that to happen. They even had another baby after we had our relationship.”
I don’t know the two (or three) people in that relationship, but what happened was not an ‘imminent’ divorce. What happened was nearly 20 more years of some level of commitment from the woman’s husband.
What to do? Start by realizing that just because dating can make a lot of sense to those who are divorcing, doesn’t mean it makes sense for you to date them.
Then:
—Follow your values: Dan, you don’t want to date the married, so don’t. Given your run of luck, I’m fully behind your idea to request proof of Freedom. Some may be offended, but you needn’t attract the whole world, just one (literally) single match. Go for it!
—Just say know/no: Cindy, is he rebounding? Maybe, maybe not. Half the men who re-nup do so in about three years—leaving little time to bound at all once you factor in time to meet, court, and commit. But heaven or hell could be in this man’s details, details to which you aren’t yet privy. He could be lying or unclear about his intentions to divorce; you could be wife-bait; the divorce could drag on for years. You don’t know.
What’s certain is Stress. About 70% of remarriages where both parties already have kids fail from Stress. Starting a relationship during a divorce, when you both have kids and you don’t know the risks/circumstances, is just (warning, technical term coming) cra-cra. Think about how Stressful your own divorce was; now imagine yourself in *someone else’s*, where you have even less control and high odds you won’t be Priority #1:
“….having to “be there” for anyone else only made my problems seem worse, and made it a lot harder for me to function just day to day. I needed to be there 100% for the kids and myself, and new romantic partners, whether they know it or not, are just as needy as a new pet. You have to have the time and energy (and inclination) to work at a relationship. Just like marriage, ironically.”
Upshot? If you were madly in love, knew his circumstances better and felt good about them, the divorce was definitely finalizing soon, and somehow you’d found ways to mitigate the Stress, then I might advise you differently.
But since none of these factors are in place, you might send along this note: “You’re cute; call me when you’re single.”
Cheers,
Duana
*This article is based in science, much of which has been covered previously in other LoveScience articles linked at the bottom of this entry. But there aren’t many studies addressing why the not-quite-divorced are dating. Today’s quotes came from the following letters Wise Readers generously shared privately and gave permission to re-print:
(Letters were edited for length, and some details were changed to protect anonymity.)
From a man:
….We dated for a couple months before she told me she was married but didn’t wear a ring because she felt divorce was imminent. We only lasted a couple more months before the stress of seeing each other while she was still married overwhelmed us…..We said we would take it up when the divorce was complete, and the house was sold. It only took another 18 years for that to happen. They even had another baby after we had our relationship. Soooo, probably best it ended when it did….. She had one foot out the door for 20 years. How stressful would that be?
From a woman:
I [married young and am now separated at age 27]. I have no kids.
I have been mostly optimistic about dating. The most difficult part is deciding whether or not to tell potential dates about my “I’m almost officially divorced” status. I mean, I don’t think I need to tell a man when he just asks for my number that I am in the process of being divorced. I mean, it’s way too soon! Unfortunately it has created some problems.
I met this really great guy about 6 months after my separation. At first I wasn’t too interested in him but I went on a date anyways and simply told him that I was divorced. I also told him the reason why. I knew that when I said “I’m divorced” he thought that it was official… I just didn’t want to get into the whole “I’m in the process” conversation. Well, this relationship flourished and we started dating exclusively. At this point I started to feel really guilty about not telling him I was not officially divorced yet, especially because I was keeping contact with my ex regarding the divorce process. I felt that if I told him that truth he would be angry at me for not telling him sooner and not trust me. I felt really crappy although all my friends told me it was no big deal. I just felt like such a liar! We ended things about 6 weeks later because I found that I simply wasn’t ready to date someone exclusively. I learned that I definitely needed time in between relationships.
Now I tell men that I go on dates the truth… some do not ask me out again (I’m assuming that my I’m not-quite-divorced yet status may have something to do with it… or not). Last week I went on a date with this guy and when I told him that I was in the process of getting divorced he said “so you’re married!?” Needless to say, he hasn’t asked me out again… and I don’t blame him. My divorce-in–progress status is a red flag. I tell myself that I shouldn’t date anyone but at the same time it’s so exciting to meet new people and feel attractive, go out, have fun and sex.
My divorce should be finalized within the next upcoming months.
From a woman:
….I was the ‘almost-divorced’ one. I think there is no one ‘right’ answer to the question. There are just so many variables that can make it complicated. I would definitely recommend anyone considering it take the decision very seriously.
After my first marriage deteriorated, my soon to be ex initially wanted me to sign a paper stating we had ‘tried everything we could and could not work things out,’ therefore waiving the mandatory 2-year separation period in our state…I refused because I did not think we had done all we could do to save the marriage. Therefore, we were not divorced very quickly. He got an apartment, and still came ‘home’ after work for months to help put our two young children to bed as neither of us emotionally was ready to tell the kids. Eventually, we told them, and about 2 years later our divorce was final. That’s a long time to be legally married to someone that has clearly moved on (he moved in with his girlfriend after about a year).
My ex, despite his inability to be faithful to me, was generally a good, responsible person. He knew that it would take me time to re-enter the workforce after having been a stay at home mom to our children, and that after we were divorced I would have no health insurance… So he stayed ‘married’ to me until I was able to find a job and pay for COBRA to keep health insurance.
…About 3 mos. before the final hearing, I met someone, and although I did not intend to start dating anyone before my divorce was final, it happened. I was quite torn over it, but I knew it was time. I think that one’s mental/emotional state, and how much one has truly worked at recovering from the pain and grief of divorce, has much, much more to do with the timing of dating again than one’s legal status. One person could be divorced and not ready to date again for years. Another could be ‘almost-divorced’ and ready.
From a man:
I was hoping the cliff’s notes to your article about dating the not-quite-divorced would read, “Don’t”.
It can be very hurtful to the non-dating spouse to watch this go on. They might be holding out hope for reconciliation. What is gained by jumping the gun on this? Isn’t it preferable for both parties to have a time of mourning or at least reflection before getting back out there?
I guess one upside I can see is clarity for the one dating the near-divorced. If you pay close attention, you can learn a lot about how this person handles conflict.
From a woman:
I went out once and only once with a man who claimed to be ‘separated’. I wasn’t quite as discerning as I became once I’d been out in the wide world for a while. This man had all the accessories: nice looks, good personality, owned his own business. The clinker was this ‘separated’ problem. His idea of separated wasn’t that he and the spouse lived in separate towns, not separate neighborhoods, not even separate houses. They shared a house and she wasn’t aware that he considered himself free to date other women. She just thought he slept in a separate room out of consideration for her. He “wouldn’t get a divorce because she was too old to get a job and support herself,” so he thought he was doing the honorable thing in supporting her financially but planning a bachelor life for himself. We didn’t see each other again, and I never again was tempted to go out with a ‘separated’ man. Too, too risky.
From a woman:
…. I retain most of what I read in perpetuity. I recall reading an article in a magazine some years ago, I think it might have been Cosmo but that part I’m not entirely sure about, but the meat of the piece was about what a woman should and should not do for herself while she’s getting divorced. One of the biggest things that stuck out for me was dating. Basically, the author posited that her energies are pretty much sucked up with the intricacies of the divorce (even a “good” divorce) and this pretty much dooms a new relationship from the starting gate. Also, they noted that a divorce is a major life change, and it’s important for people to take some time to figure out who they are without their spouse.
….[When I was separated and where I live], you can’t just up and decide to get divorced. You have to be legally separated for a year before you can even apply to the courts for a divorce. Temporary support and custodial agreements can be put into place in the interim. But if you want to be divorced sooner, you have to prove abuse or adultery. And in those cases, it takes a number of preliminary and actual hearings to hash all that out and with the court dockets already backlogged, it’d take you about a year to prove that anyway so you’re better off just waiting the year and saving yourself about 30 grand in legal fees.
I saw a few people while I was separated. Two were disasters for different reasons. One was so spectacularly normal it’s not worth mentioning, LOL. Anyway, in the first scenario - he was going through a divorce too….And that article was completely correct. At first, I didn’t mind being a shoulder for him to cry on….But I just got sick of the stress vibes from him, always bitching about [his ex’s] latest shenanigans, what have you. I felt like, “Dude my separation is no…day at the beach, the cops have been at my house ELEVEN times in the past 3 months, he hasn’t paid support in two, but I’m not sitting here whinging….” Then he snapped at me one night and said I obviously don’t have a clue how hard it is because I have family to help me take care of my kids. I had my two aunts - ages 84 and 87 respectively. Some help….
The second one was [just a terrible person]….I was going through some of the most difficult shit ever, things NO ONE should ever have to experience, and I was forbidden from bringing up depressing subjects. He was very much in control of every interaction that way…..
I guess what I learned from that one is that is that…having to “be there” for anyone else only made my problems seem worse, and made it a lot harder for me to function just day to day. I needed to be there 100% for the kids and myself, and new romantic partners, whether they know it or not, are just as needy as a new pet. You have to have the time and energy (and inclination) to work at a relationship. Just like marriage, ironically.
More recently, one of my friends was going through a divorce, and he started dating someone before the marriage dissolution was finalized. His new relationship was hot and heavy and took them both by surprise. He certainly hadn’t been looking, but they just happened to meet, through a friend I think, and he just took it as….cosmic good luck? Anyway, she actually moved in well before the divorce, and the soon to be ex-wife was none too pleased, obviously. She assumed he’d been cheating all along, this new relationship got so serious so fast.
Fast forward six months. The relationship failed so damned badly, that the jilted new girlfriend tracked down the ex-wife and spilled every incriminating bit of intel you could possibly imagine. They never became real friends, but she did help his ex-wife do some considerable damage to him in the court system. I can’t rightly say he didn’t earn it….
From a woman:
My separation was more than two years long. I was willing to wait at first, but my then-husband would not let go. He failed to come to court meetings, he wouldn’t sign papers, and he told me he would rather die than see our marriage end. He said I had no right to date because we were ‘still married’, ha! We were only ‘still married’ because he was refusing the divorce! I was in my late 30’s and unprepared to spend the rest of my life waiting for him to let go as I watched the good men snapped up by other, younger, women. He had taken 10 years of my life, and that was enough!
I didn’t end up with anyone I dated during the divorce, but I think that was more about it not being the right match than not being the right time. I feel not one shred of shame for dating while I was ‘still married’, although plenty tried to shame me. Those men were sanity savers and I thank them for showing me that love could happen again. I am remarried to a man who doesn’t put me in the emotional deep freeze. He dated during his divorce too, long before we met. Complicated issue, no one right rule for everyone.
From a woman:
I married a man two and a half years younger than me 18 years ago. Although that’s not a big age difference, it does make an impact depending on what age you do get married. He just turned 22 and I was about to be 25 at the end of the year. I was in a place to settle down and have a family but I don’t think he was quite as ready as he thought. He didn’t; shall we say, finish partying. That carried over into our marriage and one thing led to another to where we just grew apart. There were also other obstacles that we just couldn’t overcome. We were also very different people with different backgrounds and beliefs. That didn’t help things either.
Needless to say, we separated last year and I have since filed for divorce. I have begun “semi-dating” someone whom I’ve known and have been friends with for a year now. We started talking and realized that we have so many things in common and come from the same backgrounds. He’s also not quite divorced but in the process as well and we’ve been great sounding boards for one another.
We’ve made the decision to not have our relationship out in the open until everything is final. In the meantime, my ex has been dating out in the open since our separation and his ex has moved her boyfriend into her house.
They say that there’s someone for everyone and if that’s the case; then when you do find that someone, why can’t you grab that happiness and pursue it as long as you’re smart about it and no one gets hurt? I was raised by “old fashioned” parents in the belief that marriage is sacred and if for some reason there is a divorce, you shouldn’t date until it’s final. But, we don’t live in that “old fashioned” world anymore (not saying it’s right or wrong) but life is too short and we’re not getting any younger! So, for the first time in about 10 years…I’ve found my smile and happiness and I intend to hang onto that and enjoy my life. And that just so happens to include a very wonderful man whom I’m enjoying my time with and taking one day at a time to see what’s in store for us.
All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D., and LoveScience Media, 2012.
Do you have a question for Duana? Email her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com. You will receive a personal response, and if your letter is ever used on-site, it will be edited and your name will be changed prior to publication.
Related LoveScience articles:
—Women really do face worse marriage odds with age, and here’s what to do about it:
—Men usually remarry soon after divorce:
—Jealousy, especially for women, is a tool to test a relationship’s bond and a mate’s love:
http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/winning-him-backwith-jealousy.html
—Stepparenting involves many Stresses and high divorce risks, and here’s what to do about that:
The author wishes to thank the U.S. Census Bureau for stats on men’s and women’s remarriage rates (by length of time from divorce, gender, race, and age): http://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/marriage/data/sipp/us-remarriage-poster.pdf
And all the authors cited in the related LoveScience articles above.
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Reader Comments (6)
Hi Dr D.
I was in the "getting divorced" mode for a long time. I let my morals get in the way and thus did not cheat. I wonder at times if I should have, especially since my "wife" and I lived apart. I did finally make the leap and am very happy now.
Being the guy, trusting the woman that they are newly "in love with" is not married or attached to others is very difficult. I suspect the attached woman would still lie, or avoid the issue. Which leads me to the woman's side. I believe you mentioned in an earlier article that women are best served by dating around and not committing to one man "until a ring is on her finger". It seems the guy's, Dan's in this case, only real way of knowing is to actually propose if he is serious. Until that time, he should use whatever clues he has about his date, and continue to date around himself and not worry so much about the details, unless the potential husband is armed of course.
Dear Vincent,
Thank you for your note. Sounds like you were in one of the 'strangers under one roof' couples. Turns out, that's one of the biggest predictors of divorce; Gottman found that couples who were yelling at one another were likelier to stay together than those who had come to a point of living separate lives. And affairs are often a symptom of a marriage that is ending, more than a cause. It's laudable that you resisted that temptation, in my opinion, but understandable why some might cave in. When people are lonely (especially when women are lonely, actually), they often start looking for some companionship somewhere.
I'm glad you brought up the point about when women should stop dating around. I don't recommend waiting all the way until engagement before a woman will be exclusive with one man, but based on the research, I do find it advisable for women to date around until the following things have occurred:
---The man has said and shown through his behavior that he is in love with this particular woman;
--he has said point-blank that he wants exclusivity and is offering himself exclusively to her (monogamous dating--not necessarily engagement);
--the woman feels at a gut-level that he is being truthful.
I've written a few pieces about that, and here's one of those articles:
http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/waiting-for-sex-for-how-long.html
So if Dan were to wait until engagement to know if a woman were already committed, that could cost Dan some serious heartbreak, time, and money. That seems a lot to ask of him, especially since he's had a lot of pain around this issue already. Instead of taking that large risk, (and given his luck and the fact he's dating online--where people can and apparently do say any danged thing), Dan might be much better off simply saying something before the first date is even set with a supposedly-divorced woman:
"I've dated a few women who told me they were single, when really the divorce was still in progress; it made me not trust them, and unfortunately, it also means I'm a bit gun-shy now. I'd like to get to know you better. Can you show me proof that your divorce has finalized?"
Some women will be huffy about that, but after all Dan's been through, that might be much preferred to getting burned by The Lying again.
Cheers,
Duana
How can you tell if a guy is rebounding? I'm dating a man newly out of a relationship, not a marriage but a serious relationship, and I don't know how to tell whether I'm a transitional relationship to him.
Dear I.J. (cute name!),
I don't know how you're going to tell, for certain, whether your're in a transitional relationship right now, either. Certainty isn't often available, in the lab or in life. Simply waiting to see what happens is fraught with risks to your time and emotions if it doesn't work out. But let's see if we can at least get you close to a better guess.
In general, despite stereotypes to the contrary, men like getting and being married/committed. Of all the men who remarry--and most do--half of them do it within three years of the divorce. This would hint that at least half the divorced guys are actually pretty serious about finding the right one and making a commitment, and that they aren't so into the playing-the-field thing. After all, it's usual for couples to date for one to two years before marriage, so if the norm is remarriage in three years, that leaves about one year to find someone new (exception: the men who already found someone new pre-divorce), and two to court and re-wed.
What about that other half of guys, though? Well, they're taking longer to marry again, but still, it's unclear whether they're having multiple transitional relationships, or just don't want another marriage, or what.
Which kinda guy are you dating? First off, what has he *done*? The best predictor of what any one of us will do in the future is what we've done in similar past situations--the Law Of Psychology. What people will do really isn't that big a mystery. Just find out what they've already done, and there you'll see your odds spelled out. If this guy has rebounded between serious relationships before, expect that he's doing it again; if not, not.
Second, pay attention: What does he say? If he's saying things about not wanting another commitment, or needing time before he gets serious again, etc., believe him. That could indeed be a sign that this relationship with you is temporary or transitory; he wouldn't say those things if he were sure about choosing you.
Third, note his non-verbal behavior. What does he do? Studies show that women are usually focused on many non-verbal signs that a guy is committed to them. These signs are many and varied and individual. Does calling before he comes home mean a lot to you--and does he call? Has he asked to meet your parents, and proudly introduced you to his? Has he spoken of a future together? Has he asked for emotional and sexual exclusivity? Has he bought you jewelry, or some romantic gift that shows investment of time, money, and heart?
Finally--but perhaps most vitally--how do you *feel*? Women's evolved psychology is finely attuned to signs that a man is or isn't willing to commit; it's literally a decision that could have meant life or death for a woman and her kids in the ancient past, and so it's an area where our brains are clued in. It's likely that this knowledge of how 'safe' a guy is, commitment-wise, is going to come to you *emotionally* far more than linguistically or logically. Emotions pre-date language, after all; emotions keep animals alive, and they're here to help keep us alive as well.
So if you're feeling uneasy about this man, then there may indeed be something to feel uneasy about. Look at his words and actions, yes--they're constantly telling you his commitment level. But don't overlook your own feelings in the process. They're there for a reason, and that reason is to save you.
I hope that helps. Ultimately, the one person who can tell you whether someone is rebounding or unlikely to commit is you. Watch what he says, what he does, what he's done in the past, and how you feel. Your answer is there.
This is a tricky subject, as usual, I've got a few rules:
1) Never lie about the separation vs. divorce
2) Never lie about time depth of the separation or divorce.
I think rebound is the landmine in this. I've been the person getting separated here. I think people often think of rebound as someone using someone else to get over the past relationship. As you point out above, the 'rebound' here can actually be a means for trying to extend the past relationship through a jealousy move. or it could be someone grasping for a life preserver to get away from a sinking ship. In my case, I wanted the new relationship because 1) it was offered by someone I knew, trusted, and wanted, and 2) she was an adult woman in control of her life, which was immensely appealing. My marriage had been broken for years and it had taken quite a bit to extract myself and my child from a partner with serious chemical dependency issues. What I did not count on was my own baggage that I brought to the new relationship from the old.After years of dealing with a physically dangerous partner, accepting someone new as completely safe was much more difficult than I expected, and, in the end, that baggage doomed the relationship. Old business has to get resolved first before you move on successfully, that's the real rebound, and what it looks like differs from person to person-- and they might not even know it's there until the relationship is on.
Mr. Corvid, very well-said as always. Thank you for sharing your story...you went through a lot of pain for a long time, and it makes perfect sense to me that when a little sunshine presented itself in the form of a new romance with an old friend--you basked. The relationship didn't last, but it did sustain you in some ways.
I think your letter goes along nicely with this note someone sent me in private:
"This is such a difficult topic, really. In the end, I think these rocky, difficult, [mid-divorce] post-marriage relationships are really good for the divorcee and horrible for the person they hook up with. You almost have to give two completely different sets of advice here. [The relationships- are critical for rebuilding the divorcee's self esteem. But the [person divorcing has]no clue what they want, they don't even know what they're going to do with their life yet or what kind of partner they want to have. It'd be foolish to expect a long-term relationship from them, even if they themselves think that's what they want."
Exactly. Sometimes, a relationship that begins mid-divorce can work--I've personally seen this work best when the not-quite-divorced person was 'divorced under one roof' for many years prior to official proceedings. But usually, things don't pan out, for all these reasons and more. Stress is not our friend when it comes to establishing and maintaining healthy, happy relationships, and divorces are Stress Festivals.
Thanks to all those who wrote in. Thank you.