Wise Readers,
Your responses to the Penis Size column resulted in answers to many fascinating questions: If women aren’t so phallus-focused, why are *men* intently measuring themselves? What’s the height/penis-size relationship? What do women report as the most important dimension for their pleasure? Does a woman’s size have anything to do with it? Are there racial differences in size? Can weight loss make your penis bigger? Do vasectomy and/or circumcision make a difference in either sex’s satisfaction? Read on!
Cheers, Duana
From Little g: —Why Do Men Care So Much About Size?—
Like my Author title? Lol. Size in this day and age is all from porn. Plain and simple. But I understand that large phallic symbols have been around for millennia. So it seems that men have always had fascination with being “horse hung.” JK. Most of us guys who please our partners well are well endowed as much as we need to be. But I must admit though, when the little woman moans, “You’re so big tonight!” whoa doggy!
Duana’s response:
Dear Little g, loved what you wrote. And you bring up a solid question: If women don’t care so much about men’s size, why have *men* always cared so much about it? After all, the porn industry and its bread-loaf-sized erections haven’t been around forever. Yet apparently male anxiety has.
Scientists are still wrestling with that question. They think it has something to do with men’s competition among other men. Men live in hierarchy; there’s an alpha wolf, an omega wolf, and everything in between in any male group. We all come from an African time and place very, very long ago where guys constantly saw other guys’ peni, and men have apparently always assumed that the guy with the biggest dick is top dog. Or at least, that it’s one aspect of top-dogness.
But that begs another question. Why would having a swingin’ dick make a guy top-dog? Why would ancient art depict enormous phalluses?
I haven’t read an answer to that anywhere, but here’s my take. Ancient art often symbolized physical elements associated with fertility~and folks who had more children had higher status than folks with fewer, as is still true in much of the world.
For instance, from cave paintings to air-brushed mags, women are depicted with a waist 30% smaller than the hips…and it just so happens, those women are the most fertile.
So perhaps ancient art showed huge male members because *men* wrongly assumed a large penis brought more children, in kind of a “the guy with the biggest dick wins” thought process. (As Tom points out so astutely below, it is possible to have many children without a large penis. But maybe guys believe(d) otherwise.)
Or maybe men weren’t conscious of the connection…but perhaps there truly *is* such a connection, and Genes are (yet again) expressing their preference to be passed forward by manipulating human mating psychology. The connection would probably be rather slight, much as women with the ideal waist-hip ratio aren’t the only ones who can create children~they’re just the ones with the reproductive edge.
And after all, men and women were not consciously aware that the waist-hip ratio of a woman was a good fertility indicator until the past decade or so via science…yet those are the most fertile women. Maybe the guy with the biggest dick does win, over the generations and millennia, Genetically speaking.
Ultimately, we just don’t know…yet. But since most of us no longer wish to procreate as much as is humanly possible, size remains largely irrelevant to modern mateships.
Thanks for the fascinating question.
From Carl: —Not buying the “women don’t care” thing—
so why do women talk about size? why do they find the men with bigger bulges so much more exciting? why do they talk with their gfs about how big he is? and even according to your article why do they report their lovers being bigger than they are?
Duana’s response:
Dear Carl, thank you for some great questions. Frankly, I don’t have the answers to most of them~scientifically. But as a woman of no small experience in listening to women talking about sex, I have not often heard women discussing or making the remarks you’re asking about.
My hunch is this. There is a statistically small pool of Size Queens among women, and they can be vocal about it. And given men’s extreme sensitivity on the topic, it would only take a man once to hear a damning statement about size—*any* man’s size—to presume that most women feel that way.
As far as why women report their lover being even bigger than he is, the science didn’t address that directly, either. Yet I think a clue exists in the form of sexual satisfaction. 84% of American women are sexually satisfied with their male’s member…so if they’re satisfied, then it must be big or plenty big enough, right?
Any way you look at it, it’s skill, not size, that is the deal-maker for the vast majority of women. And skill is just a matter of learning. And learning is what Love Science is all about. Thank you for the contribution!
From Anonymous: —Size just isn’t (very) important to me!—
I have to say it’s a bit frustrating to answer this question over and over, because I honestly think men aren’t listening to the answer anyway. But….because I have my own insecurities, and greatly appreciate folks being patient with me about it….I’ll say this one more time: Size matters. a little bit. but not very much. Really. Truly. Given a choice? Yeah, I’d probably choose average over dinky. But I’d MUCH rather be with a man who loves me, who finds me completely irresistible, who sincerely gets off on my pleasure as much as his, who is funny, and smart and attentive and with all of that going for us, the size of his penis would be irrelevant.
It’s a fact that the best lovers I’ve ever had the pleasure to be with have NOT had the biggest penises. The one man who can (and does with blissful regularity) drive me completely out of my mind with physical, emotional and spiritual pleasure is…..in all measurable ways….decidedly average. Go figure.
Duana’s response:
Dear Anonymous, preach it ;).
From Tom and Mr. 6 and 7/8: —Size ain’t everything—
From Tom:
As a younger man, I finally stopped wondering about “big enough?” when we had our first child. And then came our second. And our third. And our fourth (the surprise package). I had to acknowledge that average must be enough, and that was a very reassuring thought.
Anyway … a sawed-off shotgun is still dangerous when it’s loaded ;-)
From Mr. 6 and 7/8:
Hey gang, by nature, it’s only about delivering the protein package up high in the nest and letting the strong swimmers do the rest.
Since we are now evolved so far beyond the primitive, it’s now mostly about winding her up, finding her G-spot, and rockin’ her world good and proper. My guess is the ladies like the whole concert, not just the drum solo.
BTW, my lady loves have appreciated my physique, chest hair, and keeping Richard and the Twins smoothly shaved ;) Take care of yourself, take care of her, and enjoy your life!
Duana’s response:
LOL and well-put, gentlemen. Mr. 6, there’s empirical support behind your guess that “the ladies like the whole concert, not just the drum solo. “ And—good advice.
From Daisy: —Give everything~not just that one part of you—
I’ve been married 14 years. In my experience before marriage, I broke up with only one man over sex — it had nothing to do with size. It was that he wasn’t “with me” when he was with me. It began to feel like I was merely a stand-in for a sex toy. Actually, it only took two “events” like that to turn me off completely. Cold. And I had no tears.
The best I’ve had was with an “average” guy who really, really enjoyed me and enjoyed us. Sex was an extension of our relationship, and I always felt appreciated, loved, and cared for. Believe me, I returned the sentiments. ;)
And I have had one experience with a guy I consider “B-B-Big.” Bless his heart. While sex in general was ok, the actual act wasn’t very exciting. I hope experience has benefited him and his girl — which points to the Truth.
You’ve got to give your heart and mind, as Duana points out, if you want great sex in a long-term relationship. Once you commit to that, read a few of those technique books to give you some ideas. Then throw the book out and enjoy figuring out what makes each of you tick.
And here’s a Big Hint: Even *she* doesn’t know all her hot spots. So look for them **everywhere** :)
Duana’s response: —Yes, many men do really worry about this—
Fabulous contribution, Daisy! So many men worry needlessly about this issue. I hope you brought comfort and confidence with your words.
My own informal discussions with women as I prepared this column yielded much laughter—as in, “Really? Men really worry about that?”. I assured them that yes, many men are very concerned with size.
One woman then relayed the following story to me (which I am paraphrasing a wee bit, but not much):
“I was in my mid-20’s, and this short, fat, balding guy around age 30 became my lover. He had a tiny penis. It was not long, it was not thick. Once, he asked me if he was hurting me, and it was all I could do to assure him, with a straight face, that I was fine.
“The thing is, he was THE BEST LOVER I ever had. And it’s been over 20 years since he and I were together. I realized even at the time that he was amazing. What made him so great was his attitude. He paid attention to everything about me, he made me feel sexy, he told me I was hot, he acted like making love to me and figuring out exactly what turned me on was the reason he was on Earth. And he was confident! He threw me around the bed! The passion was just off the charts. I wish we had been right for each other in other ways, because we were right for each other in bed.”
From Candi: —Confidence = Sexy—
I think it’s important to suggest that a man’s insecurity about his body plays a bigger role in his acumen as a lover than does his body. As the poster commented previously, her lover’s confidence played a much bigger role in her pleasurable experience than any attribution to size. Women have similar issues about weight, I believe. I know that having a beautiful and healthy body is a pleasure for a man to look at. However, I think the man is just as attracted to the confidence she feels about her self because of her body image as he is to the body itself. Her attitude about herself plays just as big a role in their experience together as anything else does.
Duana’s response: —Confidence = Sexy – even moreso in men?—
Hi, Candi, Good points. Although self-confidence is sexy to men and women, it’s likely a bigger turn-on to women, because we seek signs of social dominance in a mate; men who are too submissive and lacking in confidence may not be stable or powerful enough to provide and protect.
Interestingly, Lever’s research—based from a sample of over 52,000 men and women!— showed that a man’s self-assessed penis size is closely related to his body image. In the survey, participants were asked, “How do you feel about your body?” “How do you think you look in a swimsuit?” and “How do you feel about your face?” Men who believe their penises are smaller were less happy about their appearance on every dimension (men who rated their penis size as average were in the middle for these self-ratings of attractiveness, and “large” men were happiest).
Morrison and other researchers also recently showed that men’s satisfaction with their own penis size is related to men’s body satisfaction.
If you’d like to see a lay-person’s article about the entire survey, including data about women, please visit this link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3076477/
From Gillian: —What about *the woman’s* size???—
Love the article. 3 random observations: (1) Seems like the woman’s size would figure in, as well. (2) Also —and I can’t believe I’m actually admitting this—size XL plain scares me. It’s just too much. Bigger is not always better and I think JT should totally stop worrying about this, for all the reasons that Duana and others have pointed out. (3) Height does correlate to anatomy size, at least in my current experience.
Duana’s response: —Don’t forget the girth—
Hi, Gillian, and thank you for the not-so-random observations. Although women have not been asked specifically whether their partner’s size fits them (just whether or not they like the size of their partner’s penis, and how large they rate it), doubtless you’re correct that a woman’s size also figures into this.
For instance, it’s established that the women who need cervical pressure in order to climax are going to require a penis that will reach the cervix; and women, like men, are of various sizes. Sometimes the same woman is of various sizes throughout a lifetime—as before and after childbirth!
As for Size XL Scares Me (Lol!): My informal interviews with women have usually revealed that when women do care, it’s because they believe they and their partner don’t fit well because His is much bigger than Hers. However…that said…Lever’s research showed that only 2% of tens of thousands of women said they wanted a smaller one, and 14% expressed a desire for More.
Perhaps, though, it would have made a difference if the women had been asked which dimension—length or width—women wanted More of! Turns out that research by Russell Eisenman showed that if you ask women to make a choice between greater width of a penis, or greater length, almost all (40 of 45) choose girth as giving more satisfaction.
Likely, the reason for that is because the nerve endings are located at the outer portion of the vagina—so girth is felt and experienced more than length by many women. Add to that that a really Long Penis can jar the ovaries—causing a “racked” sensation—and one can imagine why women made that choice.
Several scientists have searched for a physical correlate of penis size. They’ve looked at hands, feet, body mass index, height, weight, self-reported height and self-reported weight. And the only thing that’s even reasonably related to a larger penis size is height—but most (not all) researchers agree that it’s not an especially strong relationship.
What’s really clear, though, is that men who *think* they are tall believe they are well-hung…and men who believe they are fat, or have a high BMI, report a smaller penis size.
As ever, thanks for the fascinating comments!
From Gabriel: —Skillz—
Hooraay for the good Doc Welch and the sought after golden research! “Figure Out What A Specific Woman Wants—and Give That To Her!” That is the truth! That is the black and white of it! That is the ultimate adventure in most men’s lives.
The adequate are more than adequate when you listen, feel, and watch your partner enjoy your most heartfelt, animalistic, skillful and intimate thrust of physical pleasure. Over time, all the nuances and tweaks learned from playtime become a part of a man’s repertoire in allowing his mate to fully enjoy her sexual prowess. Sorry, I’ll hold back some enthusiasm.
Duana’s response:
Hi, Gabriel, it’s good to see several men posting on this one, although of course the lurkers are welcome, too ;).
From Igo Pavlov: —Pure poetry—
Size plays role proportionally to physical of the partners, but one should not neglect true nature of passion that, of course, goes further than material core. In reality no volume can match the psychic symbol a woman can hide inside her mating fantasy. That is to say that the small physical can do better than the biologically large one – but with the right story: vocally and verbally calling on the symbol that is known – it has to create the image – human male can go on narrative, either about burly handsome village idiot used by strong girls during summer nights; or about a mighty stallion waiting for her mistress, obedient and quiet, responding only to her whisper, allowing her to touch him whenever she wants. The realm of instincts wants to be sure to stay away from social norms (chains) and firmly inside animal kingdom. A woman can always recall such a lover as a bull, a stallion or some other animal. But the key is in the psyche itself – virtue of creating the mood of ancestral caves with fires and rocky floor covered with fur… or play with other symbolic images of brute nature - gentle, yet strong and protective.
Creativity of a psyche can beat physical sphere on any level, simply because it preceded it. The problem probably occurred long ago, when symbols were mistaken for flesh and blood and with that - with death as well, while psychic life suppose to go far beyond (any size).
Duana’s response: —Men value themselves above & beyond their peni—
Whew, Mr. Pavlov, is it hot in here, or is it just your writing?!? I will leave all poetry and symbolism to you from now on—good going!
May I just add to your prose this one scientific finding? A recent study done on over 27,000 men showed that men tended to value quite a few of their own qualities more than their sexual ability/physical appearance. The men hailed from countries including the United States, Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Mexico, and Brazil—and they esteemed their honorable behavior, self-reliance, respectability, good marital relationships and good health *more than* sexual prowess and looks. Kudos to them!
From Daniel: —How To Make Your Penis Seem Bigger—
I remember reading somewhere that if a man is 30 lbs overweight, the layer of fat on his lower abdomen covered up an inch of his penis - so losing 30 lbs would make it an inch longer. I doubt that’s a linear function - ie, lose 60 lbs and get 2 inches and so on - but it certainly makes for good motivation to lose weight!
Duana’s response: —Even more information on the height-weight-size relationship—
Hi, Daniel, excellent point about penile appearance and weight loss. Excess weight can bury part of the penis, indeed.
And as it happens, some scientists, such as Janet Lever and her team, also think that thinner men can just see things in their entirety a lot more easily than heavier men can. Lever was basing that on men’s self-described penis size and their self-described weight/body mass index, though— which can differ from the actual, measured sizes and weights obtained by researchers in a lab. (Yes, plenty of men have been willing to have their member examined by researchers who whip out measuring devices during participants’ various arousal levels.)
Which means I should mention that at least one study indicates a real (not just perceived) and strong (as opposed to weak) relationship between height, weight and penis size.
(And I have been accused of enjoying saying “penis size” lately; to which I respond: “Penis size, penis size, penis size”.)
Roberto Ponchietti and others measured the length and girth of 325 Italian men’s aroused and flaccid peni, and found a strong relationship as follows:
—Peni that were bigger belonged to men that were taller;
—Peni that were bigger belonged to men that were not overweight.
More interesting stuff about penile dimensions? Masters and Johnson, and —more recently—Jamison and Gebhard, found that penises that are small when flaccid tend to have a larger size increase than the penises that are larger when flaccid.
So you can’t judge a penis by its non-erect cover. Hey—that’s kinda catchy ;).
From Igo Pavlov: —Women’s sexual double-standard—
I suspect there is one phenotype that a woman may consider as a mating one (with such she would reproduce), and another one that suits her sexual gratification…..
Duana’s response:
Hi, Mr. Pavlov (I see your first name is Igo, but being a psychologist, I just cannot resist the name Pavlov, lol)— You’re indeed correct that women frequently have one set of standards for the man who is wed versus a man just to take to bed. The standards are genetically higher for Mr. Right Now, and greater for signs of economic success/resource provision for Mr. Right…
From XL: —Liking living large—
Duana, LOL “you’ve been accused of enjoying saying penis size”—that does sound funny when you say it enough.
My comments:
First of all, I totally agree with what you and others have stated that it is the confidence, enthusiasm, giving, touching and loving nature that will have the most impact on the woman’s satisfaction, not the size of the penis.
However, that being said, let me say that I do think there can be something to be said that increased arousal in a woman can occur by seeing and handling a large penis, much the way the majority of men get a tinge of excitement seeing and touching a woman with large breasts.
Because the woman is somewhat aroused by the sight and feel of it, she may therefore be more “primed” for intercourse, and therefore more easily have an enjoyable experience if her partner is otherwise attentive to her needs.
This has been my experience anyway, as I guess I happen to be one of those guys who falls in your 2.5% of the population that is larger than average, at about 8.5” in length and 6.25” in girth. (you can thank one of my former girlfriends for these exacting measurements. LOL) I am also relatively tall at 6’ 2” and not “fat” at 185 lbs. so I guess that part of your research holds true. Perhaps if I was 30 lbs heavier I would be an inch shorter. :-)
However, as you stated, I believe it is much more important in how you use the member than its size. Each woman is different and I have been with some who really got off on the size thing and commented to me about it, others who needed me to refrain from certain positions because it was uncomfortable, and still others who loved those same positions.
So as you so accurately pointed out, listening for my partner’s body language and verbal language for what she needed was the key for me to ensure her pleasure (and mine!), not the size of my member. Plenty of foreplay to ensure adequate lubrication before intercourse is key as well.
I might also add that not every woman feels the same inside, so just like penises, every vagina is a bit different in size and feel too! However, the differences absolutely did not stop me and my partners from enjoying ourselves!
From Tony: —The myth of the black male—
As a black male I can’t tell you how crazy this topic makes me. First, the myth, as many already know is just that….a myth. And it actually is not always a good assumption considering there are women out there specifically profiling men for that quality. I would never be cast in a porn movie but I would never be picked last out of a lineup. lol
But the best thing happened to me early in life. I heard a college love of mine had began dating an old high school friend of mine Joe. Now let’s just say Joe was a guy who sleeping was hanging 8-9 inches. We were all his friend, but we all hated him, and any chick he dated might as well have been considered a graveyard in our minds. lol
I ran into this college love years later and we met for drinks. As great as she still looked I couldn’t help but think of Joe. I was thinking to myself, “She can’t possibly want anything to do with me sexually anymore…she’s had JOE!”
3 days later we were at her place and Joe was on my brain. I knew something could happen and I couldn’t help my insecurities. Not about what I had because it had worked for me. But more of what she had had. I brought it up shamefully. And she went on to say THAT is not as great as you might think. He had some issues and it wasn’t all that. She then said, “Would we be here if that were an issue? I loved our intimacy!”
That was all I ever needed to hear. I will never know what Joe’s issues were. Didn’t matter. It wasn’t about him or anyone else. It was about me and what I was doing right. That’s been my mantra. So I drop my towel proudly and say, “You haven’t seen nothing yet!” lol
Duana’s response: —The size/race thing—
Dear XL, thank you for sharing your experience. Doubtless, there’s no One-Size-Fits-All-Perfectly for either gender—but we can all find that combination of sensitivity and touch and heart that makes the experience thrilling with a particular person.
And Tony— God love you and that wonderful woman who set you straight about penis size and intimacy! What a great story.
By the way, regarding size and ethnicity/race: Although I didn’t do much reading about that for this particular article, other reading I’ve done indicates that there are a lot more differences between individual men in a group, than there are between groups… So you’re right, not all men are size S, M, L, or XL in *any* group—and individual “members” within every group represent all the various sizes. Thanks for posting!
Tony’s response:
Thanks Duana! I love the topic and the discussion. I have to make it a point to stop thru for this column more often! By the way, Friends have said to me, “What if she said that to just stroke your ego.” I say, “What if she did?” All I know is what she did like and what worked for us. She knew what I was working with. If anything, I hide my feet often. They are a size 14! Just trying to manage expectations. LOL
Duana’s response:
Tony, too funny re: managing expectations! :) Welcome. I do hope you’ll “hang” around more often at Love Science!
From Carmen: —Girth & circumcision & ED—
Oh my…this has been fascinating. Duana, you’re a genius with puns. Try this one…penis size testicle size penis size testicle size…very, very fast. It’s challenging. There’s so much to comment on in the article & responses. Amen to it all…
I’m glad that “girth” was mentioned, as that is what I’ve told my sweetie.
Interesting, too, that the “cut” was mentioned [by another poster], as my Man was born on a hillside in the Ozarks and never received the “cut”. Very interesting how that little procedure can make such a difference. Uncircumcised men, I’m guessing, are much more sensitive…which does result in premature ejaculation.
Of course, I’m just guessing, because I have not done extensive research :-)
Guys, there will most likely come a time when, as Gail Sheehy said, you can no longer f&*# a chicken. There are, of course, ads on TV addressing this medical condition. There are meds, and there are devices, which can help. The devices cannot increase penis length, but they do increase penis girth, which is the most important thing for most women (as Duana’s research revealed). There are also illnesses that can prevent ejaculation…this may sound like the End of the World to you. But it is not. Lovemaking is not just about orgasm, believe it or not. As Duana’s research revealed, the relationship, the willingness to stimulate each other with foreplay, the total attention to a partner’s desires and “buttons”, the giving to one another….these are the things that matter in the “long” run. The willingness to adjust one’s expectations….e.g., realizing that Orgasm is not the purpose of Lovemaking at this point in our lives…keeps the juices flowing, if you get my drift.
Duana’s response: —What’s circumcision got to do with it?—
Hi, Carmen, thank you and thank you!
I’ve done a column on impotence/erectile dysfunction (LOL about “can’t f*(a chicken)”, and it’s here: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/sos-save-our-sexlife-or-do-it-yourself-sex-therapy-when-your.html
And perhaps someday I’ll do one on circumcision. For now, a word on what scientists know about that:
As of now, the American Academy of Pediatrics opposes circumcision; aside from the slight risk of injury and the fact that most hospitals even today don’t give anesthetic to the babies before, during or after the cut, it does not provide health benefits if one is even reasonably clean; and children seem to have psychological and physical trauma for months after the procedure.
For instance, levels of stress hormones and crying are much more intense for baby boys who were circumcised than were not when they are again put in any stressful situation, such as at vaccinations. Yvonne Brackbill, Ph.D., did some of the initial research into ongoing trauma—and the research goes forward with others now.
As for sexual pleasure, most people actually assume circumcised men are the ones who climax too fast, but as Masters & Johnson found in 1966, there’s no difference—the foreskin retracts during erection, so the glans is exposed either way for intercourse.
Recent research shows that men tend to say they experience less sexual pleasure after the circumcision if they were circumcised as adults (the babies clearly can’t give a before-after on that!). The exception is if the foreskin was removed in adulthood due to phimosis (a too-tight foreskin)—those guys are pleased to be out of a tight spot, as it were.
But I believe “the cut” the earlier reader referred to may have been vasectomy rather than circumcision. It is easier for many women to relax and enjoy sexuality with their mate if there is only a 1-in-a-thousand chance of conception. Women whose family size is complete can enjoy the mild anti-depressant, mood-elevating effect of the semen without any of the pregnancy worries or inconvenience of many other forms of birth control, giving themselves fully to the joy of the moment. And men’s enjoyment and performance are not harmed by this cut. At least, until someone calls out, “Mommy, Can I have a glass of water?” :)
Cheers,
Duana
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Do you have a question for Duana? Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com.
Related Love Science articles:
A complete list of the human sexuality articles at Love Science is available at http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/tag/sexuality
The author wishes to thank the following scientists for their outstanding research into what men and/or women think of penis size:
—Janet Lever, David A. Frederick and Letitia Anne Peplau’s article
—Cindy Meston’s and David Buss’ book Why Women Have Sex
—A. B. Francken and others’ article
—Roberto Ponchietti and others’ article
All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D., 2011
Note: A briefer, alternate version of this Q&A was first published at Love Science in October of 2009. This version is lengthened and expanded…for those who still insist that Size Matters :).